By GallowsHumor - 15/09/2014 20:28 - Finland
GallowsHumor tells us more.
Hi, I'm the OP. I realized I was reading my own FML and thus created this account. To elaborate the story, these estimations are called Fermi problems and they're designed to teach dimensional analysis and approximation. They're typical in physics and engineering education and mine is a mix of both. The gerbil-sun is actually an approximation presented by Dr. Larry Weinstein - a physics professor and co-author of 'Guesstimation: Solving the World's Problem's on the Back of a Cocktail Napkin'. I believe the title should speak for itself... *sigh*... and that is exactly how it felt to be on the lecture. It is not that I think that learning to approximate is something to be scoffed at, per se. Indeed, it is skill that all experimental scientists and other people alike do need and find useful - often in basic, everyday life. However this was the third lecture in the series and they all have gone more or less within the realm of vagueness, "hip" examples and little to grasp for the inevitable physics homework that doesn't solve itself. On a related note, my lecture-mates also eagerly discussed the approximate number of piano tuners in Finland (in the original problem the place is Chicago) and at which height Felix Baumgartner might have broken the sound barrier during his sky-dive from the altitude of 39 kilometers (estimate). As this endless drone went on and on, I sat there, bored out of my mind, desperately wondering if and when the tune of the lecture(s) would change and how the heck would I utilize this in the homework, most of which requires some actual and exact calculation, not just some half-baked estimates. Thus the FML. P.S. There's actually a short article in thepointnews.com about Weinstein and his gerbil-sun, and I must say it was way more interesting (not to mention less time-consuming) a read than listening my class drone on and on about it and the other Fermi problems for 90 minutes straight.
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You sure like hyphens. Character count getting to ya OP?
No, as a matter of fact the character count wasn't the issue on this one. But to answer your question in more detail, English is only my second language and in Finnish we use the hyphen - or more frequently just simply write two words together without it - in situations where in my understanding the hyphen is often left out in English and instead a space is used. Plus, the FML staff had moderated my text and added the hyphen in "university level", the FML thus totaling 4 hyphens. A famous example from the Finnish grammar is the "juoppo kuski"/"juoppokuski" difference: When the words are written separately, it means that the driver (=kuski) is drunk (a DUI) or alternatively and less purposefully that (s)he is a drunk who's driving a car, (not specifying if (s)he's drunk when at the wheel), whereas writing the words without the space completely changes the meaning to a person who's driving a bunch of drunk people around (a designated driver).
We might be able to do the same in English by saying "It's the difference between being a drunk driver and a being a Drunk driver." Admittedly, we probably wouldn't say it that way.
For English to be your second language, you write better than 99% of people I know.
#26/OP, isn't English your third language? I mean, since Swedish is officially our second language ;P I found the analogy between juoppokuski and juoppo kuski hilarious. I'm a Finn too and I had never even thought of that :D
I live with a Physics major. She spent her summer working with the SuperCollider, and this is totally a conversation she and her physics friends would have. And it would make total sense to them, and be very philosophical, but it would go way over any layperson's head. Like OP (and myself XD).
This is amazing lol my gf is an astrophysicist @ Emory
Funny, I always thought that gerbils were only associated with Uranus, or places where the sun doesn't shine?
Oh no, people were having a silly conversation in a class.
Hi, I'm the OP. I realized I was reading my own FML and thus created this account. To elaborate the story, these estimations are called Fermi problems and they're designed to teach dimensional analysis and approximation. They're typical in physics and engineering education and mine is a mix of both. The gerbil-sun is actually an approximation presented by Dr. Larry Weinstein - a physics professor and co-author of 'Guesstimation: Solving the World's Problem's on the Back of a Cocktail Napkin'. I believe the title should speak for itself... *sigh*... and that is exactly how it felt to be on the lecture. It is not that I think that learning to approximate is something to be scoffed at, per se. Indeed, it is skill that all experimental scientists and other people alike do need and find useful - often in basic, everyday life. However this was the third lecture in the series and they all have gone more or less within the realm of vagueness, "hip" examples and little to grasp for the inevitable physics homework that doesn't solve itself. On a related note, my lecture-mates also eagerly discussed the approximate number of piano tuners in Finland (in the original problem the place is Chicago) and at which height Felix Baumgartner might have broken the sound barrier during his sky-dive from the altitude of 39 kilometers (estimate). As this endless drone went on and on, I sat there, bored out of my mind, desperately wondering if and when the tune of the lecture(s) would change and how the heck would I utilize this in the homework, most of which requires some actual and exact calculation, not just some half-baked estimates. Thus the FML. P.S. There's actually a short article in thepointnews.com about Weinstein and his gerbil-sun, and I must say it was way more interesting (not to mention less time-consuming) a read than listening my class drone on and on about it and the other Fermi problems for 90 minutes straight.
I can understand probably 85% of what you said but I filled in the rest pretty easily. Though I am only in highschool so.... anyways I would say that sometimes we get bored during lectures and crap people say all the time. But sometimes we just have to suck it up. I know it's boring and I don't know, I guess not up to your standards. But have you thought that maybe that is how other people learn? Maybe well you're complaining (not to be meant as rude) it actually helps other students learn better. Maybe I'm right maybe I'm wrong. Again I didn't understand the entire FML and your follow up so maybe I'm wrong. Though I believe you say your fellow classmates or something doing the lectures. Well if you get the chance why don't you go up there and hive a lecture of your own, get everyone's gears working. Turn over a new leaf, then maybe everyone will start thinking how you think. Anyways, I hope I understood you properly to respond if not then I'm sorry for wasting your time.... my god my true Canadian is really showing through. I need to stop that.
my dear god, you have whole lectures on approximation? I got bored with it after one lecture (thank god it wasn't even worth the whole lecture). I never really had absurd examples, but I remember being a little confused by an example. I didn't know there was actually gerbil sun examples in real life theory though- I must have missed that when I zoned out. I feel you, man. I hate losing class time. I guess the best you can do is to try to study on your own or find someone who already knows the subject. good luck to you fellow physics student *salutes*
What? I zoned out near the middle. That's some over the top stuff there.
i... what.... i didn't understand about 70% of that... that's incredible, though. you're obviously really intelligent, sorry about your class, maybe you can talk to the professor or something?
@62: Too stupid, thumbed down.
I feel semi-accomplished that I understood the majority of the OPs follow-up. .-. Good luck to the classmates. I'm sure that you'll be ahead of them if they keep up their trend of their estimations on things that seem trivial. Fun, but trivial.
Wait was this actually hard to understand? Anyways, when I read the original FML, I thought about how I wished my microbiology and biochem classes were more interesting like your class seemed to be, but an entire lecture about approximation? Wow, that is harsh. FYL, OP. Hopefully your other lectures for the day were more interesting.
Thanks alot op, you broke #62s brain.
To be honest I find approximation and other such activities fun. But I can understand you annoyance of doing something pointless and wasting time.
I can't imagine the shear boredom! I had half a lecture on fermi problems, that was enough! Had to calculate the number of piano tuners in Newcastle! Must be a common one! :D
I had a similar disappointment in my college Econ class. We spent TWO lectures on how to add fractions and estimate the area under a curve using rectangles and triangles (and how to calculate the area of rectangles and triangles). If you're going to college and learning something that uses calculus, learn calculus. Riemann squares are good for learning, but ridiculous for application.
That reply post by the OP made me even more confused! I definitely don't have a fermi grasp of the situation.
I totally feel you. I'm an applied mathematics major and half of my differential equations class was random examples that you could solve using DEs, instead of how to solve them.
I don't get how people don't understand this. I'm a high school freshman and I understand it perfectly...
I'm not sure about the whole gerbil sun thing because I never got that far in physics, but the other examples that you mentioned seemed like fairly simple mathematical equations that sure shouldn't take up an entire lecture. I tried to get into engineering after high school since I've always been good at math, but Calc 2 and some other classes just went over my head, so props to you.
I really hope I'm not the only person that doesn't get it. Cuz its either that or i am really stupid
Nope, you're not..
I understand it, but then again, I'm an engineer. Basically they are lecturing on how to estimate things. We know the approximate diameter of the sun and from that we can calculate a fairly accurate volume. We also can figure out a fairly accurate volume of a gerbil. Then by dividing the calculated volume of the sun by the volume of gerbils you can determine how many gerbils fit into the sun. A useless problem in itself but it does teach estimation which is extremely useful to engineers and scientists
Your classmates sound cool.
Best time to read that stuff is if the doctor ever prescribes you tramadol or oxycodine. It's the state your brain needs to be in the understand where the author is coming from. I read a lot of that type of physics and philosophy while on a four week morphine prescription, it made for a very fun way to forget about the cast on my leg.
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I'm not smart enough to understand this simple post.
What? I zoned out near the middle. That's some over the top stuff there.