#82 I know you were being sarcastic, but most of those things you listed ARE attractive and womanly. not overdoing it but a little effort into your appearance is nice. I honestly feel bad for women who don't get enjoyment out of those things. You strike me as pretty bitter. FYI you don't need to starve yourself to be in good shape its called using common sense and having some self control. You can't say "people can present themselves as they wish" and then say OTHER people are retarded for mistaking women for men and feeling bad for her If you don't dress feminine and someone thinks your a man you have NO RIGHT to be offended I have no problem with women dressing manly but then don't complain if someone thinks you are in fact, a man

You don't have to dress femme to be considered femme at all. What do you think "dressing manly" is, eh? Those jeans in the girls' section are actually supposed to be for guys, you know! Women aren't supposed to wear such terribly manly things! It wasn't long ago at all that jeans were pretty much PROHIBITED to be worn by women, those were "men's clothes" And no, a lot of those things AREN'T attractive at all. Other than wearing the clothes and jewelry, and keeping in shape, the things I mentioned are all fake. Pretending is horribly unattractive. And why the hell are they "womanly"? So, I'm not "womanly" because I can't stand to put on a mask every day? I'm not "womanly" because I choose to be COMFORTABLE over advertising myself to the world (meaning, wearing loose clothing)? So I'm not "womanly" because I prefer to keep my hair "virgin"? Gee, I was pretty sure my boobs and figure and UTERUS and such made me a woman, but I guess not... I feel so ******* ugly every time I am forced to "dress up," it's not funny. Society claims I am not pretty or a dyke because I don't do the things they think a woman should do, but my soul claims I'm a horribly ugly person for listening to them and doing what I am not comfortable with /at all/ just because everyone else is doing it. A norm is not always correct. After all a few hundred years ago blacks were slaves, and that was norm. Don't feel bad for me. I feel bad for YOU for thinking you actually need that shit in order to be considered attractive and womanly. And you clearly did not read when I said "I have long, wavy hair (therefor, it is FEMME) and am STILL mistook for male" -- my point was that OP could be quite obviously female to any NOT stupid person; she could have long hair, she could be wearing form-fitting clothes, she could have HUGE BOOBS, she could be wearing make up, and the man STILL mistook her for male. That was my point. And yes, you do have a right to be offended, because those are people stuck in the thought that women are only women if they fancy themselves up in order to be "presentable" to society every day.

Ah, and if you're wondering why I come off as bitter about this, I'll tell you. I've been harassed basically my entire life by my parents, family members, and supposed friends about my appearance so much it isn't even funny. And I mean literally HARASSED. My father has gone as far as to launch into long rants about what a filthy dyke I come off as because I wouldn't wear EARRINGS of all things. My parents FORCED me to go to prom and FORCED me to wear a dress, put on make up, and get my hair done. I was absolutely miserable the entire time. My "friends" have also forcibly put make up on me, dressed me up in their clothes, and sent me out the door with a guy whom I really despise because I needed to "do more girl things" (along with get laid as well). One of my aunts has gone as far as to passive-aggressively INSULT me for wearing jeans... and those WERE women's jeans I was wearing that day! My mother has FINALLY become .... somewhat more acceptive. I was allowed to choose a very nice "suit" (I wouldn't exactly call it that) for my grandfather's funeral over some stupid formal dress or one of those damned silk shirts she went in (seriously, those were way too colourful for something like that!). My aunt did the same thing there, too, while wearing inappropriately tight-fitting clothing. Yeah, I'm a weirdo dyke for not wanting to wear skimpy clothes to grandpa's funeral. :I A very, very dear friend of mine's mother has also harassed and threatened her about "not dressing/acting girly," too. She's taken things from her and disallowed her some luxuries all because she doesn't like wearing blouses, and so doesn't want to. Her mother has actually CRIED in a store because apparently she "hurt her feelings" when she wouldn't pick something to wear to a wedding (or rather, pick something her mother wanted her to wear). She punishes her for arguing and "acting stupid" and such because she wouldn't agree to wear what she wanted her to. I've talked with her many times, and any argument you could come up with ("I'm old enough to dress myself," "I'm sorry I'm not your pretty princess," "Why is it so important to you?" "Why can't I be myself?" "What does how I dress have to do with you?" "Why should I be forced to be unfomfortable?") results in the same. She's even threatened to take her to behavioural counselors because she "doesn't act normally." It's almost made me cry, hearing the way her mother treats her. It HAS made me cry, the way I've been treated. It all DOES make me absolutely sick to my ******* stomach. It's just so horribly disgusting. No, I am not attempting to be rebellious, (neither is she) and I do like and do some things that are typically very "girly" (kittens! high pitched squealing! hugging!), but I want to be comfortable and dress how I want to, not how people dictate I should. I'm not one of those twits who think I need to make myself different on purpose, or be all "non-conformist." I just... want to wear and be what and how I like, and so does she. =/

Too long did not read. Just kidding. But seriously, you totally missed #84's point. She wasn't forcing you to conform and dress girly. She was saying that IF you don't want to conform, that's perfectly fine but then you have no right to call someone else "retarded" if they don't like how you look. I.e. if you want people to accept your opinion of what's beautiful, then you also have to accept others opinions of what is beautiful (or in this case, what's not).

and when I say "accept" I don't mean conform, I mean you should respect their opinions and not think that they are "retarded" for having a different opinion or else you're equally "retarded".

But you missed my original point was that I was calling people retarded when they mistook an obvious female (or male) for a male (or female). That's not an opinion, that's a fail at observation; ie, being dumb. And I know, I saw it was obscenely long too. I understand if nobody reads it lmfao

I completely understand. I hate a lot of girly things and I don't wear makeup at all. It's just who I am. It sucks that people mistake you for a guy, but you can't take that personally. Just learn to be more comfortable with yourself, and people's comments will start to not bother you as much. When I was in high school, people were always suprised to hear I was an upperclassmen. They thought I was a 14-15 year old. Yeah, it kind of sucked, but I just learned to be more comfortable within my own skin.

Lol, I have THAT problem too. I feel so out of place in my college classes, being so tiny and young-looking. I don't actually take it personally, except for when people accuse me of being a lesbian (in a negative way). Like I said, I just find it kind of sad and odd how dumb people are to mistake me as a guy when I'm obviously female... Even if I'm not very femme, I DO still have the long hair and petite body.

Phwoarh. Deep.