men are so heartless because all those girls out there saying "i just want a nice guy" never go for the nice guy that's usually right there comforting her or helping her through yet another breakup with the douchey Bad ass type that treats women like crap. so the nice guy eventually gets fed up with it and says **** it, ill be that asshole too. and it is really annoying to hear women ask this question because YOU CREATED THEM!!! you taught them that that was what you wanted so they became that now you know and knowing is half the battle. oh and if you are wonder i am that nice guy. Ive just said **** it.

wondering***

Hello twisted sense of entitlement.

I disagree. This is not so much a twisted sense of entitlement as a recognized effect of stereotype threat. Guys, like all human beings, become what they are led to believe they should become. In this case, the nice guy who is frequently disregarded will eventually sell his soul and, in the interest of achieving his heart's desire, he will do what he sees works for those who have achieved his heart's desire. Of course, anybody who knew him as the nice guy will promptly get pissed and make a big show of things. I would not say it is a twisted sense of entitlement for a nice guy to become bitter at being unable to secure the happiness that the asshole, who many see as a taboo, is perfectly capable of achieving himself. Take Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein," for example. The Monster was completely innocent and benevolent, but everything he did was met with nothing but resistance. Because of who and what he was, he was unable to do what he wanted to do -- that is, live a nice, peaceful life with people who loved him. Anytime he tried to interact, he was chased off with guns, torches, the whole nine yards. So what happens? He realizes that the only way he can interact with people is by becoming what they expect him to become -- a monster. And so the murder-spree begins. In fact, the only promise of happiness he gets is when he scares Victor Frankenstein into agreeing to fashion for him a bride. Of course, Victor realizes what a stupid idea it is, so that doesn't go down either. Now, here's my question. Was it so bad for the creature to want a chance to be happy in the first place? Is that a twisted sense of entitlement?

lol.. 1) For the record I've also seen guys who really believe themselves to be the "nice guy" up until they finally get a girlfriend and she builds their confidence... suddenly he's out of her league of the girlfrien and has to find others to sleep with. lol Just saying it's something I've seen more than once... don't blame women. 2) I have some nice guys in my life, so I know there are some... and I also know, that a nice guy with some confidence will have no problem finding a nice girl. Problem is many self-proclaimed nice guys don't have confidence... which makes them appear to be emotional, needy, and creepy. You need to balance it out... be nice but also be confident/secure. 3) Women do not create douchebags. If a man is a douchebag, his douchebaginess is his own doing and his own responsibility. Do not look for someone to blame. Oh and..... frankly, someone who goes on a rant about women being stupid or fickle, isn't a nice guy.

You didn't catch the entire conversation. Read down. :)

I have to agree with Ketatonia, actually. I don't think that girls avoid nice guys simple because they're nice. I consider myself a nice guy (never cheated, listens and responds, opens doors for his lady), but I haven't had a lot trouble getting the girl I've had the hots for. That wasn't always the case, as I was a shy wreck not 5 years ago. When you come off as uncomfortable in your own skin and in general lacking self worth and respect, you've managed to hit the biggest turn off of all women. The problem most guys have is finding that balance between nice and confident without becoming a tool. It makes you a more approachable candidate; women will respect a guy that (at least seems to) respect himself, and the nice side is what keeps them with you. In a nutshell, it doesn't matter if you're nice or not, it's all about that confidence

I'd also like to put in a couple of thoughts here. Some guys also think that billing themselves as the nice guy will help them land girls. I dated one of them. He claimed from the beginning to be a gentleman, and when I broke up with him, he tried to argue me out of it by telling me that I was ditching the nice guy in favor of the bad boy. Why I did I break up with him? Because he lied to me and to his parents in front of me, stole from me, and repeatedly pressured me for sex though I told him I wasn't ready. But he held doors for me, so that makes him the "good guy". I can see some girls being suspicious of the "good guy", especially since some use it as a tool. I'm not knocking all good guys (I found another boy who had the same billing but was actually a good person), but there is always going to be some suspicion on my part.

Sounds like you're implying that I'm putting up a facade in order to land girls. Well, I'm sorry you had a bad experience with this "nice guy", but any guy who steals and lies to those he's closest to is in no way a nice guy. I've never been accused of being a douche, an asshole, or a liar. In fact, I've kept up with my ex's and the one thing they all say is that I've always been loyal and trustworthy. I believe instead of being suspicious of anyone who claims to be nice (which, in its own, seems to promote assholes), pay more attention to any red flags BEFORE you date him. There are always signs of problems later before you start the relationship. If you just jumped into dating him before you truly knew him, that's a personal issue, not the problem of every nice guy you should meet.

I'm not insinuating that YOU are necessarily a jerk, cPatrick. I'm just mentioning that some guys (like my asshole ex) use it as a cover, so girls may be initially suspicious of a "nice guy" because they wonder what his agenda might actually be. Trust me, I know there are actually really awesome guys like you out there who are actually what they seem to be! I managed to find one shortly after my ex. But I was a lot more careful with the really good guy until I was certain that he wasn't a jerk in shining knight's armor.