Yeah because the divorce rate in the USA is 50% and non-married breakups are more than that. dumbass. plus kids of broken families aren't always maladjusted so what's the big ****** deal?

er no we are not all maladjusted. Most of us turn out just fine as it happens. I am from a single parent family and I have never taken any kind of drugs or commited any type of crime, maladjusted my ass.

sorry I read your comment wrong 113 ignore my comment as a reply to yours please but more a slightly off topic reply to the one above :) To comment 68 oh noes i am pregnant and im not married, oh shit that means im gonna end up a single mum cause my boyfriend and I did not sign a legal document saying that we now share the same last name. Oh noes how can i love him as much as i do without sharing the same last name, its unthinkable that we can be as stable as a married couple without that silly party and the same last name. My kid is going to be so ****** up cause mummy and daddy dont have the same last name. I am a TERRIBLE mother for inflicting that type of confusion on my kid. Do you honestly believe that marriage is more stable than any other relationship?? really?? Ok lets cut the sarcasm for a second. I do not for a second believe that as soon as that ring is put on your finger you hear this great fanfare and suddenly you will never ever ever break up. Marriage is an excuse not to try as hard at a relationship because its gonna cost you both an arm and a leg to leave.

Actually Squander never said that the child would be maladjusted, she just said that married couples generally have a greater stability. Which I took to mean as being better equipped financially, home wise, less likely to split (though there is debate there) and stuff, not that the child would necessarily turn out bad just 'cause their parents were split. I know loads of people from single parent families or with parents that remarried and they're all pretty normal, but all their parents were decent during their breakups. I think it's the ones who don't agree and just argue that screw the kids lives up, which can happen with married couples as well. Edit: Sorry monnanon, this was before you reposted. :)

monnanon- And for those of us that want to and choose to get married, why wouldn't we want to wait till after marriage to have a child? I'm sorry, but I find it just as ignorant to tell people that want to be married that it's not as stable. People are just as likely to leave, either way. If you're married, it's just slightly harder to get out of it. I'd love to hear why you don't think married people have to work as hard at their relationships. I personally don't want to have children until after Im married, in part, because I want that time with my husband. I want at least a year or two to travel and spend time with him before we have children and our lives change. I'm mostly just a traditional kind of girl in many ways and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I also don't see anything wrong with people choosing not to get married. It's a personal choice and it's all about the person. Neither is right or wrong.

So? My parents never got married, and it's a good thing they didn't. My dad is a horribly abusive man, who ruined my childhood, and depressed my mother.

It is, however, equally as ignorant to tell people that don't want to get married that just because they did not sign a contract and have a party they are less stable. My Aunt and Uncle lived together in their house for 15 years before getting married. If they had decided to have kids in that time I am pretty sure they were not going to get any more stable romantically, financially or in terms of their lives. Another member of my family lives with his girlfriend and their two children for nearly 4 years, how would marriage make that relationship more stable? It is fine if you want to wait until marriage to have children, that's your choice, but don't try and tell others that their relationships will suck unless they do.

I didnt mean it to come across that i did not want people to get married or that i was being ignorant. my comment was justified if maybe a little mental. I was putting another piece into the argument, i did not see the point in being balanced if the pro argument was there already. My view is marriage is just a party and a signing of a bit of paper, it has not spiritual or religious pull for me but thats my opininon. Your opininon differs to mine and I'm glad because then we have a proper balanced argument. i admit the last line of my comment was a bit out of line, its not an excuse but i do believe that a lot of people once they are married do not seem to try as hard at their relationship because they are settled and content (which is a good thing of course) but on the other side there is a lot of stories of people changing for the worse once they are married. Anyway marriage...if you want that then fine go for it and if you dont then fine.

sheesh, unmarried people sure are defensive. it's not for everybody, relax. me personally however, given the choice i would much rather commit to a man himself before i commit to raising a child with him. things happen and there's nothing wrong with that either, but to PLAN it, i wanted to be married first.

Weasel_girl: If you read the whole comment, you would see that I don't say it's bad to not be married. The last bit says that. It's all a personal choice, and neither is right or wrong. (Im assuming your comment was directed at me as you seemed to be responding to a phrase I wrote) Monnanon: You just seemed more attacking than discussing. Then again, it's the internet, and you can't hear tone or see expressions to go with it. People are always going to read it from their own perspective, so I'm sorry if mine read it wrong, lol. There are definitely pros and cons to marriages. Some people are completely for it, whereas others are so adamantly against it. I definitely look forward to the tax breaks, the changing of my name (it means "faithful" in Italian, and yet has proven to be anything but), and the other benefits, but I'm very careful. I almost got married to someone that would have been so wrong for me, and it forced me to reevaluate what I wanted out of a partner. Getting married wasn't as important as being happy. Also, one of my best friends was married once and says that's when it all went to shit. She's been with her fiance for yeeears, and they never plan on getting married. It totally works for them, too. She's 45, engaged to never be married and one of the happiest women I know :) It's always good to hear the other side. Im one of those people that enjoys knowing WHY a person feels the way they do. :)

I do too, theres no point in saying your for or against something if you cant defend your reasons why, I hope i have made my reasons clear. If not then all i can say is that I do not hate marriage or those that are for it I just hate the fact that the goverment of the UK where I live value those that are married more than those that are not, married couples can get a tax break, are given more respect than those that are just co-habiting (look at any form it says married single or divorced, not even an engaged or cohabitation lol) apparently unmarried couples are responsible for the breakdown in society and single parents are also to blame according to the government, silly i know lol.In Scotland we have a strange thing in our law that states that if you are co habiting for over seven years then you become commonlaw man and wife and entitled to some of the things that married couples are. I cant find myself fully in support of marriage as a good basis for a loving relationship if there is still a lot of places where same sex couples cant get married. Once there is equality in marriage then it can be seen as the attainable ideal for all couples. I do not think anything said in favour of marriage has been particulary denfensive. My first comment was the result of a bad day and was rather agressive which i apologise for so anything in reply would have to be almost as strongly put :)

oh and to weasel_girl I was not trying to be particulary defensive, my first comment (the one with the sarcastic nonsense) was the result of a bad day but also meant as a joke. also see above for reasons why i probably am a bit defensive about marriage being pushed as an ideal. I AM commited to my boyfriend its very easy to be commited and not married. I could say a lot about the history of marriage and why it is pushed as an ideal but that would be seen as defensive :D

I know in ancient greece that the cohabitation law also existed, but it was only one year. However I think that the Scottish rule is right, if you've been together for over five years then chances are you're just as stable as you would be if you were married. If I'm honest I always used to think that if you'd been together for that long you should get married just because you're as good as, why not actually take that step? I'm not saying that thought is right, I'm just saying. I mean you dont have to have a big fancy one, just a quick reception with close friends and family. I think fretforyerlatte said it best by saying it's for everyone to make up their own minds. Also, darkmis1 exactly who was your comment aimed at? Just wondering, 'cause I didn't realise anyone was saying that all couples should marry.

Mannanon: They have commonlaw here in the US, as well. I've also been impressed with some companies that have benefits for domestic partnerships, but you still have to be living together for a specific amount of time.

The post I was replying to got eaten. Never mind.

She doesn't. Read it again.