It tells us that her husband not only cheated, but ended up with a kid as a result of it. If adultery isn't enough, bringing a kid into it sure is.

Where do you see it says he cheated? All I see is that he has another child. How do you know he wasn't a sperm donor? That's right, you don't, since like I said before there aren't enough details to make a judgment that is anything other than ignorant and, in most cases, naive. Hell, even if he did cheat (which yes I know is most likely the case), just saying he cheated tells us nothing. It is definitely not enough to make him scum automatically, saying so is again naive. They could have been going through an incredibly rough patch in their marriage, he was upset and got drunk one night and mistakenly had a one night stand that resulted in a child, then spent the rest of the marriage trying to be a better husband and make it up to her but decided it wasn't fair to keep hiding it from her and decided to tell her what happened. You don't know that that isn't what happened, I don't know that that is what happened. It's all just assumption and guessing since we have no other details. In the scenario I posted he certainly wouldn't be Mr. Perfect, but he also wouldn't be the scum people are idiotically assuming he is. So again, passing a verdict on the guy with the details given is downright moronic, you are just assuming facts about what happened and have no clue whether you are right or wrong. Do that if you want, but me? I'd rather NOT look like a ignorant judgmental fool.

Um, you do know the general point of this site is to either give pity to someone for their bad luck or to condemn them for being assholes, right? Now I'm quite against people making huge leaps on this site, though it happens all the time. However, I don't think assuming he cheated (which, in my and most others' opinions, DOES make him scum) is much of a leap. Sperm donors generally are kept anonymous and not informed when they have a child, let alone gender and age.

You do realize that pity and condemnation can't be made if you have no clue what actually happened, right? If you think just cheating automatically makes someone scum then you are naive, simple as that. The world isn't black and white, you have to consider the circumstances of the situation. The sperm donor thing was just an example, and I never said it was at a sperm bank. The guy could have a couple of close friends who are trying to have a baby but can't conceive and ask for his sperm, and also ask for him not to tell anyone including his wife because they are embarrassed they were unable to make a child on their own. It's all just assumption, we can't say that is or isn't what happened because we have no other details. So again (and it's really irritating I have to repeat this, I honestly thought the majority of people would be intelligent enough to grasp this simple concept on their own), making a judgment on the guy without knowing anything about what actually happened is idiotic and naive. You can't use assumption and guessing to make a conclusion, it's basically admitting that you don't know what happened so you are making it up and should not be listened to.

Please get off your high horse. You know what is naive and ignorant? Thinking your OPINION (need I define the word?) is better or more valid than someone else's. I read what you said the first time. My opinion is different. Get over it. You're not some deity. You're not automatically right. Sure, aliens could have come to abduct him and stolen his sperm. However, thinking that's much of a possibility is ridiculous. So, way to make yourself look like a douchebag. You're defending someone who more than likely cheated while insulting all who disagree with you. You're a piece of shit. I hope someone does this to you so you can be their doormat and assume they're not a bad person because of it. Guess what. People can control themselves. Shocking, isn't it? Again, and it's really irritating that I have to repeat myself, this site is MADE for judging others' lives. Though, anyone of average intelligence would have noticed that by now. Go die.

Jason's essay posts summarized read, "Cheating doesn't make you a bad person, since you can blame it on a bad night and the a-a-a-alcohol" ******* irrefutable logic, broseidon. "The guy could have a couple of close friends who are trying to have a baby but can't conceive and ask for his sperm, and also ask for him not to tell anyone including his wife because they are embarrassed they were unable to make a child on their own." Do you know how ******* farfetched that sounds?

holly shit! The kid is an alien?!?! Wow. I think this may be an FYL for sure, although I know next to nothing about alien offspring. How did I miss that in the original post? Maybe it was buried under the bullshit about private sperm donning to your couple friends (read as a really really poor excuse for that threesome you got talked into while you were hammered). and @Jason, I may be making one of those ass-umptions that I should not be here, but I am sorry you lost your girl when you cheated. Although I don't agree with you per say, you are correct, the world is not always black and white, and you are not a piece of shit... there... feel better?

You should work on your reading comprehension. I never said the guy was right or wrong, I said it's impossible to say he is right or wrong. I have made no opinion on the matter other than there isn't enough information to form an opinion. Good job talking out of your ass, though. You really are doing a wonderful job disproving the whole "people who make judgments using assumption and guessing instead of actual fact are idiots" thing wrong. Also nice job claiming I said things that I never said. I can play that game as well. So, way to make yourself look like a heartless inhuman bitch. You are saying women dating men who constantly abuse them physically and emotionally who find someone who actually treats them with respect but can't dump the bastard guy because the police in their town are so inept or corrupt that they fear for their and their new man's safety are scum (in actually I have more right to say this since you actually did say anyone who cheats is scum, while I never said the guy was right for what he did). I'd say I hope this happens to you but I am not so petty that I would wish harm on someone because of a simple argument. You really should think before you post. So far all you've done is shown you didn't understand what it is I was saying, and then went off insulting from there. I wonder if you even actually read my posts in the first place. Some of what you are saying suggests otherwise.

So basically NONE of you actually read what it is I said? Okay, since you are all illiterate, let me spell this out for you in big letters: YOU CANNOT SAY THE GUY IS RIGHT OR WRONG BECAUSE YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. HE COULD JUST AS EASILY BE JUSTIFIED IN WHAT HE DID AS HE COULD BE A SCUMBAG FOR WHAT HE DID. YOU DO NOT KNOW EITHER WAY, YOU ARE JUST GUESSING AND SAYING YOU ARE RIGHT. CHEATING AS AN ACTION BY ITSELF DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MAKE YOU SCUM. IT IS THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT DETERMINE THAT. IF YOU CHEAT BECAUSE YOU FEEL LIKE IT YES THAT IS ONE CIRCUMSTANCE THAT WOULD MAKE YOU SCUM. IF YOU CHEAT BECAUSE THE PERSON YOU ARE WITH IS A DRUNK WHO BEATS YOU EVERY NIGHT BUT YOU FEAR WHAT THEY WILL DO IF YOU LEAVE THEM, THAT IS ONE CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE YOU ARE NOT SCUM. THERE ARE MANY OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES FOR BOTH SIDES. Honestly, I don't know how to make it any simpler for you people to understand.

I was referring to your opinion that I would be naive for thinking someone is scum for cheating, you idiot. Who needs to work on reading comprehension here? Heartless inhuman bitch? Really? You appear to be implying that someone is "naive" if they left their significant other for cheating. So you condone people treating others like shit? Hypocrite. Sure, you never said he was right or wrong, but you very much implied it by saying anyone who thinks he's scum is naive. Unless you were calling yourself naive, I can safely say you think he isn't scum. If I were being abused, I wouldn't stay in a marriage for 5 years and go have a kid with someone else. Talk about heartless, how do you think the kid is going to feel? I read what you said and replied accordingly. The whole, "You must not have read my comment" defense doesn't make up for the fact that you just look plain stupid. It's not my fault or problem that you think your opinion is better than anyone else's. I don't wish harm on you for an argument; I wish harm on you because you're a pathetic moron.

Ok, since you didn't read what I wrote either, let me put it in big letters. MY OPINION DIFFERS. I HAVE A RIGHT TO MY OPINION. GET THE **** OVER YOURSELF. I DO THINK IT AUTOMATICALLY MAKES YOU SCUM. ALSO, (AND IT IRRITATES ME THAT I HAVE TO REPEAT THIS -AGAIN-), THIS SITE IS FOR JUDGING OTHERS' LIVES. IF YOU WANT TO SEE A BUNCH OF PEOPLE JUST TALK ABOUT HOW THEY CAN'T SPECULATE, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. Caps lock doesn't make you right, idiot. You're saying maybe she abuses him? Well maybe someone abused her first. You can go on excusing ridiculous, unacceptable behavior if you want. I hope you never get married, because this just isn't how you treat someone.

Leaving someone who treats you like shit is not the same thing as "cheating". If you cheat and don't leave them in that situation, then you are a ******* idiot, as well as an ass. I said I agree that the world is not always black and white, although I was kind of being an ass while I did... deal with it. Opinions are what the are, as are judgments. People are judged everyday for far less then this "reading between the lines" type of assumption. Why the **** are you so upset that some people don't agree with you? I don't think you are reading what other people are saying... just responding to the tone of the argument. I don't even know why the hell I continue to involve myself in this. I must really be bored.

Where exactly are you getting off on? There is no indication that this man is actually a good husband. Or even making up for it. In most cases, when someone in a relationship cheats, there is no justifying it. It's wrong though, no matter the circumstances. If you're staying with a person because you two have a kid, sure they might be a good parent to them, but you're also setting an example to your kids about your relationship. That you should stick through abuse and problems because somehow... it's worth it. I wouldn't want to raise my kids that way. I'd want them to be with the right person, and be strong enough to be on their own. My parents raised me that way, even though their marriage was probably the worst out there. Also, if you're being abused, you get out. You have to. There's no excuse. It's your life. Not anyone else's responsibility. FML provides, at most, 300 characters. Everyone sees something one way or another, but don't be an ass about it. Caps lock doesn't make you cool. It doesn't do anything but make you look like an idiot.

You are naive for thinking that cheating BY ITSELF makes someone scum. I never said cheating can't make someone scum, I said it doesn't automatically make someone scum. Thinking that cheating makes a person scum no matter the reason it happened is naive. Your whole post now is basically twisting my words or simply putting words in my mouth. Not once did I say if you leave someone who cheated on you you are naive. Not once did I condone treating others like shit. I said anyone who thinks he is scum WITH THE GIVEN DETAILS is ignorant and naive. You know why? Because you are trying to add details that aren't there, you are assuming that the OP did absolutely nothing wrong and that the guy is just some asshole. That is being naive. There simply isn't enough information to judge the guy either way, which is what I have been saying the entire time. It's called using logic. If you don't have all the facts, you can't form an accurate opinion. It's very simple. I will try and reframe this so maybe you'll understand. A woman kills a man. If you are given no other details than that, you cannot say she is scum automatically. Without knowing anything else about what happened, it just as easily could be that she was defending herself as it could be she murdered him in cold blood. You can't just assume one of these things and judge her accordingly, since you don't know whether or not you are right. That is EXACTLY what I am saying here. All we know is that he has a child with another women. I even agreed that it is most likely he cheated. What I am saying is that we don't know the circumstances behind what happened. Saying he is automatically scum is assuming that he definitely was in the wrong and could not have any justification at all, which is naive. She could have been an abusive wife and he lost control in a moment of weakness just as easily as he could be an asshole who just likes to sleep around. It doesn't matter if you think the scenario is farfetched, the simple fact is that you don't know what happened so ANY scenario is possible, thus you can't assume one thing happened and another thing didn't. Please, take your time and actually read my post. You have yet to actually understand a single word I've said.

troll successful you're probably singing, "This was a triumph. I'm making a note here: HUGE SUCCESS. It's hard to overstate my satisfaction..."

If he's in a shitty marriage and cheated as a response, they both have no business being married to each other. They are BOTH at fault. Seriously. There are so many bad marriages because so very few people know how to be in a relationship or are mature enough to make rational, smart decisions as adults.

I highly doubt her husband was in an abusive relationship that he was afraid to get out of. Unless that is the situation cheating makes you SCUM and even if that wasn't true having a child with someone else then hiding it from your spouse for over 3 years puts you in the SCUM category.

And you have yet to understand a single word I have posted. Let me spell it out for you. I. Understand. Your. Point.... However. I. Disagree. Is it plain enough yet? God damn, you are dense. If I need to define anything, let me know. I don't think cheating is acceptable, unless he has a gun to his head, which I highly doubt happened. I don't think murder is acceptable! I don't care whether OP is an awful bitch or a loving angel. He should not (in my opinion) have cheated. You don't get revenge on someone by having a kid with another person! Fthatkid'sL. You don't bring a human being into the world "in a moment of weakness" as revenge. That is ****** up. I'm not "naive" for my opinion. I'm not only just as entitled to mine as you are yours, I'm agreed with by the majority of society. Your analogy sucks. You could have to kill someone in self defense. It is insanely unlikely that you have to cheat on someone to save your life or your family. Fail. I'm not adding any details to what you're saying or the original post. Some shit you don't do. Period. I don't NEED the rest of the details. Now this is the point where you dismiss my logic by saying I didn't read your post, just to avoid sounding like an idiot. You're losing the argument, your original point is ridiculous and disagreed with by most people, and you basically fail here. Go somewhere else, where no one judges anything until they have the written life story of everyone involved. There's a huge difference between inferring something quite logical and grasping at straws. You are doing the latter trying to say we can't possibly know whether he's a jerk or not. Sure, he COULD have somehow managed to get a gun to his head and be forced to cheat, then have his mouth permanently wired shut so he couldn't ever tell his wife before his kid was 3 years old, but that's illogical. If you think making simple inferences on a site like this is naive, you have issues.

maybe he didn't know about the child until 3 years later? It could be the old cheat-e just got back in touch to tell him. Also, we don't know that he didn't create this child during a period of their relationship where they were "taking a break" or otherwise separated, and the poor poor lonely guy just turned to whoever he could to ease his aching heart.

This is an endless game of Tug Of War. Neither side is going to convince the other to change their mind about this, and it's just escalating into a bigger shitstorm than it was. Just ******* stop and have angry cheat sex already.

But the trolls are making me happy, Alan! I love discussions about this more then anything else in the world. I might have mental problems... Oh well. I'm out. I still stand by my opinion. I've been to enough divorce/marriage counselling sessions then most people will ever go to in their life. And I'm not even married! Or close to being married anyway.

I agree with RBG , #82 why stop now? This argument is the funniest thing I have seen all day. At this point I am just poking the hornets nest with a stick to see what happens.

o rite, Rachel divorced Mark last night. durrrr

yeah Ian, I'm sure you'd like to "poke" Jason's "hornet nest" with your "stick" ;) Just make sure you aren't cheating on the Queen Bee

Shhh, Alan! Mark's on a date right now I think! ;D Internet marriages/divorces FTW! I was joking about the divorce papers though, between him and I. Real life marriages, not so easy. Strong, independent, intelligent, mature, financially secure, loving people are what it takes in a marriage. And even more! I can't say I know many people who have all that, but it'd be the best, for everyone.

You forgot communication (and apparently the couple in the FML did, too), which is probably the single most important aspect IMO.

I tried to say communication as well, but time cut off. D: But you get the idea. Told you, I'm passionate about it.

You obviously don't get my point. I never said you weren't entitled to your opinion, I said you were naive for seeing the world in black & white and automatically assuming there is no way someone who cheats could be justified. I said you were ignorant for not having all the details, for forming an opinion based almost entirely on assumptions (which is incredibly illogical, how you get off trying to act like you are on the logical side of things is beyond me). Everything I said were examples of what could happen. I never once said that that is what actually happened. If you read my posts you would have seen that I explicitly said that I can't say that is what happened, that I can't say he is right or even that he is not scum. I never even said there were times were cheating was the right thing to do, merely that there are times where it may be justified and doesn't make you scum. A woman who cheats because the guy she is with is a abusive drunk who might hurt and/or kill her if he found out she found a better man is not scum. If you think she is, you have issues. Honestly, people. I never said what the guy did was ok. I never said that that he isn't scum. I said that, due to there being insufficient information, I can't judge him either way. Stop acting like I am supporting the guy.

@86 - at least, if not exactly pleasant, it would not lead to a child 3 years later that I would have to go back and explain to him. He might go off on another tirade about how I am or am not SCUM for having his illegitimate gay sex child, and if I cheated.

Bleh. I agree with intoicunt and with what everyone else says. I want to see who wins this comment war. Like that annoying, old myspace bulletin "Fighting online is like winning the retard Olympics. You won, but you're still retarded." Or something like that. Whatever. To Jason: He's scum. There, plain and simple. That's just an opinion. Opinions can't make someone naive. If it did, the Martin Luther King Jr.'s hope and long speech about a dream for a racist-free world might as well been a pile of shit. :)

Nevermind about comment above. Reread the comment war. But still, he's scum to me, because he kept a three year old child away from his wife of five years, if he knew he existed.

An opinion can't make someone naive? You might want to learn what the word naive means. You are wrong as well if you are claiming MLK's speech was naive. It would only be naive if he said that the world was a terrific place already and that there was no racism. He said he hoped it could be like that one day, that's not naive. He knew the world wasn't like that already and that it would be a difficult journey to reach that point. EDIT: If he knew is the key there, we don't know if he did or not. You are free to say you think he did and thus think he is scum, just as I am free to say I think that is naive and I choose not to pass judgment.

"I never even said there were times were cheating was the right thing to do, merely that there are times where it may be justified and doesn't make you scum." Jason #90 has made a nonsensical argument he says "i never said there were times cheating was the right thing to do" he then says "sometimes, cheating is the right thing to do" because how can something be justified, but not "the right thing" can something be justified but not "the right thing to do"? if it's not the right thing to do, how can you justify it?

Being justified doesn't necessarily mean it's right or good. If some guys attacked your friend in a certain part of town so you decide to grab a knife or some other weapon and go with your friend the next time they go there, you would be justified in that you want to help protect your friend. The right thing to do would be to call the police and have your friend avoid that part of town. In the example I listed before the woman the right thing to do would be not to see the guy until she found a way to break up with the douchebag boyfriend. That doesn't mean she wasn't justified in what she did, she was abused physically and emotionally for so long she just needed to know what it felt like to be actually loved again or else she might have ended up committing suicide in depressed. I could have used a different wording though, I will give you that. I probably should have said "I never claimed that cheating was ever the best thing to do".

Addendum: I should have said "I never claimed that cheating was ever the best thing to do".

"The guy could have a couple of close friends who are trying to have a baby but can't conceive and ask for his sperm, and also ask for him not to tell anyone including his wife because they are embarrassed they were unable to make a child on their own." Who else thought of the episode of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air? The one where Jazz asks Will to help him and Jewels have a baby.

Actually, Jason, if you want my opinion - and since you continue to post here, I have to assume you do - it's pretty naïve to say that a black-and-white approach to morality is naïve. If you're going to make the assertion that there is a such thing as Right and Wrong, then you must believe in some absolute standard of each. In other words, Right things are always right and vice versa. If you tout the value of the gray area, you are undermining your own system of values. In other words, if you're going to say that Wrong cand sometimes be Right, or even that it may not always be wrong, then you do not really believe in the two. It would be supremely stupid to believe that it's okay to do the wrong thing. Now, can it be forgiveable? Yes. But if you think cheating is wrong, then there cannot be a situation where you say "Cheating that time was okay!"

I think Jason's the happy papa.

Ok, #106 wins this whole thing. I can't even expand on that. That just summed it up perfectly. You restore my faith in humanity. Thank you.

My date went badly, I blame Jason.

My Heros - Maury Povich, Scotty Vanity and #58