I didn't respond to your testaments about your family because they didn't matter. I'm sure you know people that have had it work for them. I do too. I also know people who haven't had it work for them. Anecdotal testimonials are meaningless. I ignored them instead of calling you out on it. When your brain is developed is irrelevant. Normalcy is subjective. How does it matter if you end up having sex with someone you may not end up with? That's how you learn. The fact that sex isn't as respected as it used to be is not necessarily a bad thing. Putting things on pedestals only leads to people understanding them less. There's nothing romantic about being each others' first. My first girlfriend and I had that. We waited a long time. Then there was the first time. It was awkward and kinda gross. Neither of us knew what we were doing. It sucked. And yes, your statement does work in reverse. In order for it not to work in reverse, you have to start with the assumption that sex is some sort of special thing you put on a pedestal. Hence the circular logic label. You're still doing it. Sex between people is trivialized when it's a trivial relationship. But the same people may split and find other people who they can have a stronger relationship with. And the sex in that relationship won't be as trivial. This whole "sex is trivial these days!" thing only comes from a lack of understanding. Having sex doesn't make sex trivial. Having trivial sex makes sex trivial. Having sex with someone you love isn't somehow more meaningful because you don't have a damned idea what you're doing. Of course, preaching this to you is like describing Mozart to a deaf person, so I really can't make any headway here. Learning about such things doesn't happen this way. I blame the parents these days.

hehe. way to disappoint grandma. :] YDI.

FHL

ever heard of a lock? hahha, that sucks. what did she do???

reminds me of the FML where the girl got a purity ring from her dad for her birthday and then was caught that same dy having sex with her boyfriend. ahaha

I think we need more judgmental people in society, not less. We need to laugh, point fingers at, and ostracize people like this girl. That will teach her to quit being a little *****.

Man. What a stupid *****.

89 - Anecdotal testimonials aren't meaningless. The point of them was to show that it isn't a "gamble" to not have sex until marriage. There are other ways to be intimate. Awkwardness usually is part of sex the first few times. Doesn't mean it sucks, just means you're baring yourself, awkwardness and all, to the other person. Awkward sex at first doesn't ruin a relationship unless said relationship is pretty shallow. It matters if you sleep with a lot of people because sex is about love, and it should be shared with the one person that you choose to love for life. Yes that statement works backwards in the sense that sex should be shared with your husband/wife, but AFTER a commitment like engagement or marriage, because like I said before, in a relationship emotions almost always come before physicality, i.e. which relationship is more likely to work out - a girl and a guy date for a while, care for each other, then get physical, or a girl and a guy hook up before establishing a relationship? Obviously that was a sort of extreme example but you get the point. That isn't circular logic, to assume that sex is something special. Sex IS special. Do you really not think that? Sex is trivialized when you do it with a lot of people because it's a very intimate act - you're sharing so much of yourself with the other person, emotionally and physically (or most of the time, but I think the triviality of one-night stands is obvious so I won't go into that). So do you see how it makes it more special, intimate etc. when you only share that with one person rather than spreading it out?

....

lol. Now we're getting into the whole "sex is about this, because I wish it were about this...". Anecdotal testimonials ARE meaningless. If you insist on them carrying some meaning by declaring that you have demonstrated that it isn't a gamble to wait by an anecdote, then I will prove by anecdote that it *is* a gamble (by just saying "nuh uh, I know someone who did wait, and their marriage fell apart in a year, therefore you are wrong"). Awkwardness is part of the first few times, yes. And it's not because you're "baring" yourself. It's because you don't know what the hell you're doing. You're right, the first awkward sex doesn't ruin a relationship. But that doesn't take away from the fact that this fantasy of the first time being so romantic and nice and all is just that: a fantasy. If the sex life never improves, it will wear away at the intimacy of the relationship over time... which goes back to my original point, one that it seems you are slowly coming around to recognizing. Sex isn't just about love. Sex works well with love. Maybe that's what you meant. You're doing the same thing you were earlier and arbitrarily declaring that the emotional side of a relationship *must* come before the physical side, but not showing that you have any cause for believing that other than an equally arbitrary declaration of "after a commitment". Why after a commitment? Why commit yourself to something you haven't even found out is going to work for you? Like it or not, the physical part of a relationship is important, and gambling that it will work out is just that... gambling. Even if you know someone that has been lucky enough for the gamble to work out for. But that has nothing to do with sex. Anything can be special and intimate if you share it with only one person. If I decide I'm only going to eat ice cream with my wife because it's something we enjoy immensely and keep it personal, it can be "special, intimate, etc". In order for you to consider that sex is special and intimate through your logic, you must assume beforehand that sex is special and intimate. Your. Logic. Is. Circular. Sex is trivial if you do it in a trivial fashion. Having sex with one person does not affect the "trivialness" of the sexual relationship you have with someone else any more than it would be as with any other act. Special sex is special. Only because of the people making it so. Sex that isn't special... isn't special. It's not inherently special. You've been brainwashed.