there is geliton-free jello

They kill bees in collecting their honey, and buying milk supports the veal business. Your friends haven't done their research.

It's from the bones. I'm pretty sure you have to kill, or at least mutilate, an animal to get their bones. EDIT: I just noticed you mentioned Jell-O as something that you do have to kill an animal for, and that there are non-gelatin alternatives to, sorry. :

"...unless you intended to eat nothing that is an animal biproduct..." -- That's the point of being a vegan. If you're vegetarian, you can still have milk, eggs, honey, etc if you choose to. There are variations of vegetarianism.

Your friends should research their lifestyle choices a bit more thoroughly if animal cruelty is their reason for going vegetarian. Most dairy cows are literally milked to death. Taking liters more milk than they would produce naturally reduces their life span until they are good for nothing but slurry. Just saying.

I don't get why milk and cheese is okay but meat isn't, there are times when torture is worse than death.. Imagine if I kept you locked up in a closet and came in and squeezed your **** everyday... Not a great way to live life. Still, who cares about fat ugly cows??? Omnomnom!

the ops a vegetarian not vegan

You can't really do any form of agriculture without killing animals, even if it's vegetable farming. Tilling the soil kills animals, and you need to find a way to keep parasites in check, too. On the other hand: cruelty is not required for dairy-farming. I'm in Bavaria currently, and around here the traditional ways of keeping cows are still widespread - cows spend the summer high up in the alps going pretty much where they like, and in winter they have a warm stable in the valleys. They are kept free of parasites, are not preyed on and get medical treatment. They have a great life, certainly better than most bovines in the wild. Of course this is not typical - usually industrial farming is indeed quite cruel. If you really care about cruelty to animals you should select the sources of your food carefully.

K, really? Just shut up. And go away. It'll make a whole lot of people very happy. : D

83, All the comments I have seen from you annoy me at no end. Maybe you should be the one to leave?

@ the first two: You're both annoying me. STFU

5t3ffik4h get over yourself making a simple ******* grammar mistake bothers you... you bug me... as for op it not a big deal carnivores in nature sometimes eat veggies and vegetarians eat meat it doesn't effect them so it shouldn't effect you. мудак котава

The_Fonz, get over yourself. A simple correction bothers you. You bug me. See, kinda defeats the point, eh?

Well Jane, YOU bug ME for being bugged by The_Fonz who is bugged by the short girl.

I don't even think your comment was worth responding to. Thanks, Jane! Eli - Thanks? I'm not that short. D:

I honestly don't know why I said that. I think it's because you just come off as short.

There are multiple wins in this exchange.

The short feisty one? Yeah, I guess so. :P 5'3" still isn't that short!

calm down.

(telling #83 to calm down)

guess what.....nvm ur a waste

it is...bu the kind you make, not premade!

EXACTLY. thank you. animals still die. OP is just wasting good steak that is spoiling at costco.

I'm a vegan. I recognize that I'm not really making very much of a difference, but I've decided not to participate in the system. Is that really so irrational?

YES! She's letting the economy crumble into moral decay by not buying Canadian meat, I bet she buys those blasted imported fruits and vegetables. It's these kinds of actions that make hard working Canadians lose their jobs.

#39, If you know that, what the hell are you fighting for? Your efforts are wasted as the demand for meat grows yet you have abolished it from your diet. Do you think your better than us for not eating meat? Do you see yourself as a better person because you don't participate in the slaughter of innocent animals? Do you see others as hateful carnivores because they get their protein from a much more delicious resource? If so, you're just a snobby bastard who should get off their high horse. Your not better than us, in fact, you're the same. If you love these animals so much, why don't you go and burn down a slaughterhouse in protest instead of sitting idlely by watching your friends get slaughtered.

@#72: Since I'm self-centered, it's all about me. It's where I, personally, draw the line, and I know that everybody draws their in different places. I don't talk about it unless someone asks, or the subject comes up. If they are interested in becoming a vegetarian, I give them the necessary info. That's it. Most of the world is not like me - if I judge all of them, I'm judging 99% of the population, which really isn't cool. :/ Not all vegans and vegetarians judge and persecute the (for lack of a better term) meat-eaters. If you meet someone like that - trust me, I don't like them any more than you do.

Hahahaha. 72 is a MORON.

So... you're not supposed to feel like a good person for not killing innocent animals? Woah. Guess I should start killing kittens.

#125: Eat a dick #204: The point is they're not doing jack shit when they abolish meat from their diet. The animals they don't eat are STILL EATEN by other people because those animals would be the next in line for death regardless. And cows are killed for a reason, to feed the masses. However, killing a cow doesn't have the same effect as killing a kitten (on most people anyway), so go and kill your kittens you sadistic bastard.

222: I won't eat a dick; I'm a vegetarian.

222: Déjà vu, another stupid argument from TBME. 39 made it clear that she's a vegan for personal moral reasons. It's a lifestyle preference, that's it. I don't agree with the Christian music industry, so I don't buy their products or support those artists. I'm not changing anything either— even if I don't buy the latest crappy WWJD-themed product, someone will. My goal isn't to boycott the system, or eradicate the entire genre; it's to uphold my own personal beliefs, keep a clean conscience according to *my* moral code. It's a silly example, but I think it's similar to what 39 was saying. Saying 39 is ruining the Canadian economy by not buying animal products is just ridiculous. I'm sure there are plenty of vegan Canadian-based businesses she can shop, for food and everything else; cutting one person's contribution to "the system", as she said it, isn't going to bring the Canadian meat market to its knees. You claimed she's on a "high horse" for living differently than you are (without ANY previous indication of condescension on her part, BTW), then belittled her lifestyle because it's different than yours. She's automatically a jackass because she doesn't consider the state of the Canadian economy, obviously one of YOUR priorities, as mire important than own personal ethics? Your hypocrisy would amuse me, if it wasn't so artlessly displayed.

*applause* Wow. Well said, Jane!

more* important Because proper spelling, like originality in music, is important to me. :]

I hate how so many vegetarians seem to think they're morally superior to people who eat meat. Guess what, animals die for your food too. Do you think the harvester stops for every cute little bunny that gets in its way? No, it does not. Don't even get me started about the harmful effect of pesticides on wildlife. It's so hypocritical to call someone a 'murderer' for eating steak, then turn around and eat something that killed dozens of animals in the process of making it.

To quote ignisira, who is being attacked for no good reason: "Not all vegans and vegetarians judge and persecute the (for lack of a better term) meat-eaters. If you meet someone like that - trust me, I don't like them any more than you do." SHE DOESN'T LIKE THE KIND OF PERSON YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT EITHER.

#281, Read the goddamn comment before you go making accusations. 1. Comment #40 was in reply to TRACKGiRLJONNi, not directed at ignisira, who happened to reply in the midst of our conversation. You were too late to the party to realize this though. 2. What she seemed to miss and what you yourself missed was that I never accused her of being one of those snobby closeminded type vegetarians, I said IF SO. IF SO. Read the goddamn comment before you go and label people you malicious thundercunt. And also, you claim there are many Canadian based stores where vegans can go and buy their special foods, well I got news for you. Where do you think they get those foods from? For the better of the world and FML, go kill yourself.

I never thought I'd see the day when Jane was called a "malicious thundercunt"...

The Xivilai Anaxes is also curious at to what a "Thundercunt" is. Is Jane some sort of elemental? That's it! IrishJaneDoe is not an actual human. She is in fact some sort air elemental posing as a human on the internet. A few more mumblings and we'll have the full story in front of us. Are we ready for a story? Now, IrishJaneDoe (Her real name is Fentomy) is a powerful Genasi (A lovechild of someone with a really weird fetish and an elemental) wizard. Now, BestManEver (Who's name is in fact Grobnar) is actually a Gnome. Unlike Fentomy, he is not a wizard, he is actually a bard. He's jealous, extremely jealous of Fentomy, because bards suck shit at everything. They need to constantly fight each other because Fentomy can't rest while Grobnar is trying to find some way of inflicting damage, because as previously mentioned, bards are shitty at everything. Maybe someone will actually understand some of that, probably not.

i agree

*as Bah!

#489: If I'm a bloody Grobnar, then you're of the cockstain variety, you stupid ******. And maybe if you were any kind of intelligent you'd realize that a thundercunt is a **** of the highest order (which is a word only reserved for wankers like IrishJaneDoe here). Your interpretations/slander are rubbish and not funny. Go kill yourself.

uh yeah, if i eat i only organic food that i grew myself, in my garden, in which i killed not a single thing, do i get to call you a murderer? i think i do.... at least harvesting killings are an accident, and bunnies are actually not so dumb that they wouldn't move, so the proportion of animals that died for a vegitarians food is about 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 of that which died for your nice piece of dead cow normally i'm not one of those morally righteous people, but you pissed me off :P

All those 0's still don't change the fact that you're still a moron.