Oh Perdix. Always knows what to say...

That doesn't necessarily save you trouble when you die though. Wouldn't you rather believe and find out there's nothing than not believe and find out there is and be sent to Hell? To each their own, but from a logical self preservation standpoint that makes the most sense.

Sorry 27 - that's not a belief. That's going through the motions because you are worried that what you don't believe in might be true. If there is an omniscient god then bluffing ain't gonna work! But don't worry. There isn't. And if there is, there's nothing you can do about it (see above) so no point sweating it.

Ya but the idea of hell is ridiculous to an atheist. The only things at the centre of the earth is molten iron, just like the only thing in the sky is water vapour. Might as well tell us we are not going to Valhalla because we didn't die an honorable death on the battle field while raping and pillaging.

27 - that's actually "Pascal's Wager" in philosophy. Look it up. And it's probably the worst reason to believe in anything.

Wow they reopened comments. That's a first! I didn't mean that you only believe in God out of fear of what comes after death. Of course if you lie about believing, God wouldn't let you into Heaven since you're not a true believer. What I meant was I would rather believe that there is a God, be strong in my faith, live accordingly and enjoy a fulfilling life and then find out that there's nothing after death. You don't lose out on anything by believing in God and living accordingly. The amazing things that people experience that are attributed to God, even if there is no God and it's just the placebo effect, still exist whether there really is a God or not. That's just my two cents on it. I'm not one to push my religion on others. I'll discuss it with people and if they want nothing to do with it that's fine with me. If they are interested in finding out more I'll do whatever I can to help bring them to God, but ONLY if they're interested. That being said, if anyone's interested feel free to message me and we can discuss it further.

52 - I was referring to the clouds that used to be viewed as the kingdom of heaven. I realize that the sky isn't water. 79 - why God and heaven? Why should I not be praying to Odin and slaughtering my enemies with an axe to get into Valhalla? Why should I not be praising Osiris and his son Horus in order to gain access to his heaven like underworld? Horus was born of a virgin under the star Sirius and this is celebrated on the winter solstice (around December 21). He also walked on water and was crucified and resurrected 3 days later. Any of this Egyptian mythology sound familiar???

Because that's just the way it is (and I mean that in the least snarky, most respectful way possible. I wish it was easier to convey how we say things through text). There's nothing particularly logical about it, it just /is/ according to my beliefs. That's why it's called faith. Faith is believing in something that you have every reason not to. There's no way to physically prove the existence of God or Heaven or Hell or any of it. It's just something you personally have to experience and you have to be open to it. That's a big reason why I don't push my religion on others. Christians can preach till they're blue in the face, but if someone's not open to it, they may as well be preaching to a brick wall. It's just an individual, personal thing and once you discover it on your own, you'll see acts of God everywhere that non-believers just don't recognize because they're non-believers. Prayers do get answered, divine intervention does happen, but if you don't believe you won't know that. So I can't tell you why you should believe in my God over any other gods, other than my own personal experiences with how God has worked in my life and the experiences of others. The only tangible evidence (and it's not really evidence) I can offer is that more people believe in the Christian God than any other god. People's faith is strengthened when they witness God working in their lives, so if there are that many people having these experiences it has to make you at least consider it. It doesn't prove anything, but is at least something to think about. Sorry this is so long. I'm just passionate about my faith and am trying to be as respectful and non-pushy about it as possible. I understand people have different beliefs and respect that. I hope no one feels offended by my comments, I promise I mean no disrespect. I just wanted to share my thoughts coming from my Christian perspective.

MissHayley, I just want to say that's probably the best defense of personal religion I've ever read online. You admit you have nothing but your faith as your guide, were polite about it and didn't "condemn" anyone. You won't convert anyone here and, judging from the downvotes, you won't even change many minds about Christians but I respect your honesty.

Thank you for that. I don't ever expect to convert anyone (on the internet or in real life), but I'll gladly help them find God if THEY want to. I don't even expect to change opinions. I just want to be able to express my opinions and share with people so they can see another aspect of it, and have an actual discussion instead of "yeah, well that's just stupid" like most religion/anti-religion arguments turn into. I also can't stand the holier than thou, self-righteous Christians who condemn everyone else. That's not our job. I really hope I don't come off as one because I really hate them. They're the freaks giving Christianity a bad name and are the biggest hypocrites.

[note my username before reading on] I, after a long and difficult journey so far with a long way ahead of me, have come to believe that an individual's starting point as far as their beliefs and spatial perspective regarding themselves VS. the giant, unknowingly vast universe, is the feeling of disorientation and confusion in the face of an apparently meaningless or absurd world at some point in their lives. My mother was VERY spiritual, studied intensely about both the Holy Ghost and metaphysical things, while my dad never seemed to believe in anything. We didn't go to Church but were taught the usual stories, only much more intense as my mother experienced things... her own way. I live. Not by a religion, dogma, script, social mentality, or by fear of/faith in a intellectual personified "God." I believe an individual is solely responsible for giving their lives meaning. You could go to church every Sunday, praise the Lord louder than anyone, and still be worthless in the eyes of their own dogma-- someone who advocates the word of "love" through their religion and then spreads hate by judging those around them have only existed in fear. Their awareness wasn't used in a productive way to explore and experience the world for themselves as they spent their lives pointing fingers in order to prove to themselves that compared to THAT or THAT person, THEY deserve to go to heaven. Contrarily, you could never have even heard of "God" or not have been raised to believe in any morality at all, but live a life where you were free to choose whether or not you were going to do something based on ONLY how you "felt" toward a situation. For instance, you could be faced with the choice to join in with a group of people throwing rocks at a single person because the individual was diseased, or to come to that single person's defense. You could choose to throw the rocks because you felt like you needed the approval of the group to prove your worth to yourself, or you could stand alone, and come to the single person's defense because you feel empathy for someone who is sick, and although you may fear getting sick you get a bad feeling about picking up a stone, and throwing it at him too. You could say whatever you wanted, you could believe or not believe, but at the end of the day- it's your actions, your thoughts, your feelings and the way you choose to affect and be affected by the world around you, that truly defines you. OP's friend can spout Aliens, Jesus, and even throw in a few unicorns if he wanted-- what matters is how he makes his choices and how he chooses to act upon his feelings.

Isn't hell in another dimention? Not in the center of the earth.

27-Which god? Humans have invented thousands. One more thing: Pascal's wager is a fail because it's not a matter of god existing versus god not existing, it's a matter of which god, if any. So I'll be safe and worship Athena.

When I say God with a capital G I mean the Christian God. If I were to talk about any other gods, they'll be with a lower case g. I figured that talking about Christianity would pretty much imply "which god" I was talking about.

Agreed

20 - I think your proviso applies to most friends, whether they share your religion or not!

whoops, playing*